Learn how David Resnick,a person who stutters, achieved career success. Get inspired by their journey. Manager, Product Design David Resnick Briefly describe your daily job duties. I manage the Enterprise Product Design team at Hulu where I oversee the design of apps and services for Hulu’s Ad Platform, Content Management System, Customer Support, and Data & Analytics. I represent my team within my department leadership as well as with initiatives in other areas of the company. I keep my team running smoothly, facilitating a culture of open communication, critical thinking, and collaboration. Hands-on design is also part of my work, which entails figuring out how people can use our apps better and improving upon the look and feel for the Hulu brand. As a person who stutters, share the most challenging part of your job. Although I’m told that I do well in presentations and meetings, it is still terrifying when I open my mouth to speak in those situations. That fear has decreased over the years by gaining more experience, and also through the support of my stuttering community. I’m in a position where I have to do a lot of talking with business leaders and team members and I want them to have trust and confidence in me. It’s important to show them what I have to offer and not let my stuttering keep me from that. Did you self-disclose your stuttering during the job hiring process? Yes, I self-disclosed. I did so in the context of bringing up my work with Stutter Social and the National Stuttering Association. It’s a unique thing for most people to hear about and they always want to hear more. Self-disclosing lets others know that you’re not hiding and that you’re comfortable talking about stuttering. I’ve found this puts them at more ease, which in turn puts you more at ease! Describe how stuttering makes you a better, more valued contributor at work. No doubt about it, stuttering has made me a more compassionate person. I’m a better listener in terms of giving people the time and space to say what they need to say. And I can establish empathy faster because EVERYONE has “something” in their lives that has caused them pain, shame, embarrassment, struggle, etc. When people see me with my “something” on clear display, they open up more quickly about themselves and this helps build professional relationships. What is your proudest moment at your current company? My proudest moment was when I got promoted to manager. I was so excited I had to walk around the block a few times just to let the energy out! About two years earlier, I was laid off from a company whose private equity owners decided to take the company in a different direction. It was a big blow because things were going well for me. I had two young kids and it just came out of the blue. It knocked me off my feet for a bit. But, I decided I was going to see the opportunity in the situation. I worked diligently to up-level my career from that point, first as the lead designer at a known startup, and then as a senior designer at Hulu. When the manager promotion came around, it was like the completion of a two-year cycle of my hard work paying off. What are your long-term career aspirations? I want to uplift people’s hearts and minds through art, technology, and unconditional love. I don’t know how that will play out in my career and I don’t put limits on the possibilities. VP of Product Design? Inventor of new technology? Performing artist (with said new technology)? Writer and speaker? CEO of Hulu????? What’s your best advice for people who stutter just entering the workplace and for those in a career striving to achieve greater success? I have a whole lot to say about this topic and it has little to do with stuttering. To summarize, I’ll give you the “Three P’s”: Personality, Preparedness, and Positioning. Personality is a major factor in how others perceive and relate to you and also how you see yourself. Personality determines things like the opportunities you pursue and what people you attract to support you in your endeavors. Preparedness is about what you have done to date that makes you capable of doing the work you’re seeing to get a job doing. You’ve got to be prepared! This includes education, training, and work experience—and this also includes work ethics like persistence, diligence, and awareness. Positioning is the fusing together of personality with preparedness to put yourself in the best position to get the right job and follow the right career path for you. It’s probably the easiest of the Three P’s to do, but it requires that you get the other Two P’s right first. And to do it well, you need an understanding of your industry, market, peers, and professional network.

< Back Previous Caryn Herring Presenter Caryn Herring, PhD, CCC-SLP, is the Executive Director of FRIENDS: The National Association of Young People Who Stutter. Caryn is a Co-PI on the HeardAI project and a strong advocate for people who stutter and their families. Next

Meet Julie Marshall, a valued member of the National Stuttering Association team. Learn more about their role and contributions. Julie Marshall DEI Committee Julie Marshall is a Clinical Associate Professor at The University of Memphis, School of Communication Sciences and Disorders (CSD). For the past 25 years, she has taught speech-language pathology graduate students in the areas of stuttering and fluency disorders, articulation disorders, professional clinical writing, and speech/language diagnostics. Her research interest is in cultural and linguistic diversity. She served on the CSD Diversity Task Force and currently serves on the Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion Committee. The committee has successfully increased the diversity of CSD program applicants and admissions. Ms. Marshall earned her Master’s Degree in Speech-Language Pathology in 1986 at West Chester University. She has presented regionally on the topics of diversity, fluency disorders, and clinical practicum supervision.

Meet Monica Johnson, a valued member of the National Stuttering Association team. Learn more about their role and contributions. Monica Johnson Research Committee Associate Member Monica L. Johnson, Ph.D., CCC-SLP is an assistant professor at Southeastern Louisiana University who focuses on empowerment through education not only to guide her teaching but also her clinical work, and research projects. She is currently working on research exploring dating, intimacy, & partner support for AWS. In her teaching role she prepares graduates and undergraduate students to work with and support those with communication deficits and their families/caregivers/spouses/partners and teaches courses that aim to infuse counseling and research principles into practice.

Join the Syracuse - Adult stuttering support group. Connect with others, share experiences, and access resources through the National Stuttering Association. Syracuse ADULT CHAPTER IN-PERSON MEETINGS NORTHEAST REGION Official NSA Chapter - New York State Welcome to the NSA Syracuse Chapter! The National Stuttering Association’s® motto: If You Stutter, You’re Not Alone®, is what our NSA Chapters are all about! Chapter meetings are open to people who stutter, family members of people who stutter, speech-language pathologists (SLPs), and anyone that wants to learn more about stuttering. Feel free to reach out to the Chapter Leader(s) to find out more about our chapter. We hope you will join us! How do you typically meet? In-Person Meetings What age group can attend? Adult What languages are spoken? English How much does it cost? Free! Meetings Here is information on the location and schedule of our meetings. Reach out to the Chapter Leader(s) for more information! Where? The Syracuse Chapter does not have one home and meets at various locations including coffee shops and libraries. They also meet via Zoom. Anyone hoping to attend should email Chapter Leader, David Haas, at davidhaaswmw@gmail.com to join our email list to receive information about any upcoming meeting. When? Meetings are held the 4th Thursday of each month from 7:00 to 8:30 PM. Chapter Leaders Who leads the meetings? David Haas Chapter Leader Get in touch! davidhaaswmw@gmail.com (315) 766-6502 - Questions? We know that attending your first NSA Chapter meeting might be a little intimidating so we’ve tried to answer some of your questions! We know once you get there, you’ll be greeted by Chapter Leaders who have been in your shoes before and are happy to welcome you! What are NSA Local Chapters? Local chapters are the heartbeat of the NSA — powerful spaces where you can meet others, share experiences, and feel supported. Whether you’re an adult who stutters or part of a family navigating stuttering together, we have a chapter for you. Learn more about NSA Chapters and find a meeting close to home! Read more about NSA Chapters and plan to attend a meeting near you! What does a local NSA chapter do? Our purpose is to provide information, advocacy and mutual support for people who stutter, their families, and speech-language pathologists (SLPs). Come join us and experience the NSA’s motto in action: If You Stutter, You’re Not Alone®. How can I find a local NSA chapter? You can find a local NSA chapter by using the chapter locator on our website. Simply enter your location to find the nearest chapter and contact details. Visit our Chapter Locator to find a chapter near you. What happens at an NSA meeting? Your Chapter Leader may prepare a topic for the meeting or might open the floor for discussion and see where things go. Some chapters may also host social events outside of the traditional chapter meeting. The magic of the NSA is just being among other people who stutter, building connections, and having fun while doing it! NSA Chapters give people who stutter, their families and SLPs, a chance to connect and have fun-filled experiences together! Who attends an NSA Chapter? People of all ages who stutter, along with their family and friends, speech-language pathologists (SLPs), and anyone interested in stuttering, are welcome at our chapters! Do you need to RSVP before joining an NSA chapter meeting? You do not need to RSVP, but it is a good idea to let the Chapter Leader know you’re coming. That helps them welcome you and makes your first visit a little easier. Do you offer virtual chapter meetings? Several NSA chapters now meet virtually, making it easy to join from wherever you are. On our Chapter Locator page, you can filter by meeting type and look specifically for virtual or hybrid chapters. When you find one that fits your needs, simply reach out to the Chapter Leader(s) for details on how to join their next meeting. We’d love to welcome you into the community. Don’t see an answer to your question? Email us at info@westutter.org How do I start a local NSA chapter? If you’re interested in starting a chapter, we’d love to hear from you. The NSA can help you understand what’s involved and what support is available. Please reach out to us at info@westutter.org to get started. How do I start a local NSA chapter? Starting a chapter is a great way to build community close to home. Email us at info@westutter.org and we’ll connect you with the guidance and resources you need to get started. You do not have to do it alone. How can I start a new NSA chapter in my area? Starting a chapter begins with reaching out to the NSA so we can help you get set up. We’ll walk you through the next steps, share helpful materials, and support you as you build a welcoming community for people who stutter and their families. Testimonials Read more about the power of chapters and support groups from NSA members themselves! "When I attended my first conference in 2019. I was welcomed into this "stamily" with open arms and haven't left the bear hug since!" Lexi Hewitt Exton, PA Chapter "Other people who stutter are the best sources of support, love, and encouragement on your journey. Don't be afraid to reach out, no matter what stage you're at." Gina Waggott Author, Entrepreneur "This community has helped me rediscover myself as a confident and capable person who stutters." John Ontiveros Lorem, CA Chapter

Join the Southeast Virginia - Adult & Family stuttering support group. Connect with others, share experiences, and access resources through the National Stuttering Association. Southeast Virginia ADULT, FAMILY CHAPTER VIRTUAL MEETINGS MID-ATLANTIC REGION Official NSA Chapter - Virginia State Welcome to the NSA Southeast Virginia Chapter! The National Stuttering Association’s® motto: If You Stutter, You’re Not Alone®, is what our NSA Chapters are all about! Chapter meetings are open to people who stutter, family members of people who stutter, speech-language pathologists (SLPs), and anyone that wants to learn more about stuttering. Feel free to reach out to the Chapter Leader(s) to find out more about our chapter. We hope you will join us! How do you typically meet? Virtual Meetings What age group can attend? Adult, Family What languages are spoken? English How much does it cost? Free! Meetings Here is information on the location and schedule of our meetings. Reach out to the Chapter Leader(s) for more information! Where? Meetings are held virtually. Please contact the Chapter Leader for the meeting link. When? Meetings are held the 1st Wednesday of each month from 6:00-7:00PM. Chapter Leaders Who leads the meetings? Lauren Schlemmer Chapter Leader Get in touch! lschlemmer@comcast.net - - Questions? We know that attending your first NSA Chapter meeting might be a little intimidating so we’ve tried to answer some of your questions! We know once you get there, you’ll be greeted by Chapter Leaders who have been in your shoes before and are happy to welcome you! What are NSA Local Chapters? Local chapters are the heartbeat of the NSA — powerful spaces where you can meet others, share experiences, and feel supported. Whether you’re an adult who stutters or part of a family navigating stuttering together, we have a chapter for you. Learn more about NSA Chapters and find a meeting close to home! Read more about NSA Chapters and plan to attend a meeting near you! What does a local NSA chapter do? Our purpose is to provide information, advocacy and mutual support for people who stutter, their families, and speech-language pathologists (SLPs). Come join us and experience the NSA’s motto in action: If You Stutter, You’re Not Alone®. How can I find a local NSA chapter? You can find a local NSA chapter by using the chapter locator on our website. Simply enter your location to find the nearest chapter and contact details. Visit our Chapter Locator to find a chapter near you. What happens at an NSA meeting? Your Chapter Leader may prepare a topic for the meeting or might open the floor for discussion and see where things go. Some chapters may also host social events outside of the traditional chapter meeting. The magic of the NSA is just being among other people who stutter, building connections, and having fun while doing it! NSA Chapters give people who stutter, their families and SLPs, a chance to connect and have fun-filled experiences together! Who attends an NSA Chapter? People of all ages who stutter, along with their family and friends, speech-language pathologists (SLPs), and anyone interested in stuttering, are welcome at our chapters! Do you need to RSVP before joining an NSA chapter meeting? You do not need to RSVP, but it is a good idea to let the Chapter Leader know you’re coming. That helps them welcome you and makes your first visit a little easier. Do you offer virtual chapter meetings? Several NSA chapters now meet virtually, making it easy to join from wherever you are. On our Chapter Locator page, you can filter by meeting type and look specifically for virtual or hybrid chapters. When you find one that fits your needs, simply reach out to the Chapter Leader(s) for details on how to join their next meeting. We’d love to welcome you into the community. Don’t see an answer to your question? Email us at info@westutter.org How do I start a local NSA chapter? If you’re interested in starting a chapter, we’d love to hear from you. The NSA can help you understand what’s involved and what support is available. Please reach out to us at info@westutter.org to get started. How do I start a local NSA chapter? Starting a chapter is a great way to build community close to home. Email us at info@westutter.org and we’ll connect you with the guidance and resources you need to get started. You do not have to do it alone. How can I start a new NSA chapter in my area? Starting a chapter begins with reaching out to the NSA so we can help you get set up. We’ll walk you through the next steps, share helpful materials, and support you as you build a welcoming community for people who stutter and their families. Testimonials Read more about the power of chapters and support groups from NSA members themselves! "When I attended my first conference in 2019. I was welcomed into this "stamily" with open arms and haven't left the bear hug since!" Lexi Hewitt Exton, PA Chapter "Other people who stutter are the best sources of support, love, and encouragement on your journey. Don't be afraid to reach out, no matter what stage you're at." Gina Waggott Author, Entrepreneur "This community has helped me rediscover myself as a confident and capable person who stutters." John Ontiveros Lorem, CA Chapter

< Back Previous Jolie Deitchman Presenter Jolie Deitchman is an 18-year-old from Atlanta, Georgia, who has stuttered since age 3. This fall, she will be a freshman majoring in psychology at Georgia College & State University. She is a former member of the National Stuttering Association’s (NSA) Teen Advisory Council and a current member of Sisters Who Stutter. Jolie attended her first Annual Conference at the age of 8. That was the first time she met another person who stuttered. She continues to come to terms with her stutter and how it has shaped who she is, as well as appreciate the opportunities to share her experiences. Next

< Back Previous Alyssa Kalwasinski Presenter Alyssa Kalwasinski is a 17-year-old teen who stutters and is from Columbus, OH, going into her senior year of high school. She loves learning American Sign Language, volunteering with kids at her local recreation center, riding dirt bikes with her dad, and most of all, spending time with her friends. She is a Public Outreach Coordinator for Sisters Who Stutter and a Leader-in-Training at Camp Shout Out, a summer camp for youth who stutter. Alyssa has big dreams of becoming a speech-language pathologist, a field that has greatly impacted her life. Her favorite part of the NSA is connecting with others who stutter in an uplifting environment and expanding her advocacy efforts. Next

Join the Fort Wayne - Adult stuttering support group. Connect with others, share experiences, and access resources through the National Stuttering Association. Fort Wayne ADULT CHAPTER IN-PERSON MEETINGS CENTRAL NORTH REGION Official NSA Chapter - Indiana State Welcome to the NSA Fort Wayne Chapter! The National Stuttering Association’s® motto: If You Stutter, You’re Not Alone®, is what our NSA Chapters are all about! Chapter meetings are open to people who stutter, family members of people who stutter, speech-language pathologists (SLPs), and anyone that wants to learn more about stuttering. Feel free to reach out to the Chapter Leader(s) to find out more about our chapter. We hope you will join us! How do you typically meet? In Person Meetings What age group can attend? Adult What languages are spoken? English How much does it cost? Free! Meetings Here is information on the location and schedule of our meetings. Reach out to the Chapter Leader(s) for more information! Where? Helmke Library at Purdue University Fort Wayne -- 2101 E Coliseum Blvd, Fort Wayne, IN 46805 When? Meetings are held on the second Wednesday of each month from 6:30 to 7:30 PM. Chapter Leaders Who leads the meetings? Yan Ma Chapter Leader Get in touch! nsachapterfw@gmail.com - - Questions? We know that attending your first NSA Chapter meeting might be a little intimidating so we’ve tried to answer some of your questions! We know once you get there, you’ll be greeted by Chapter Leaders who have been in your shoes before and are happy to welcome you! What are NSA Local Chapters? Local chapters are the heartbeat of the NSA — powerful spaces where you can meet others, share experiences, and feel supported. Whether you’re an adult who stutters or part of a family navigating stuttering together, we have a chapter for you. Learn more about NSA Chapters and find a meeting close to home! Read more about NSA Chapters and plan to attend a meeting near you! What does a local NSA chapter do? Our purpose is to provide information, advocacy and mutual support for people who stutter, their families, and speech-language pathologists (SLPs). Come join us and experience the NSA’s motto in action: If You Stutter, You’re Not Alone®. How can I find a local NSA chapter? You can find a local NSA chapter by using the chapter locator on our website. Simply enter your location to find the nearest chapter and contact details. Visit our Chapter Locator to find a chapter near you. What happens at an NSA meeting? Your Chapter Leader may prepare a topic for the meeting or might open the floor for discussion and see where things go. Some chapters may also host social events outside of the traditional chapter meeting. The magic of the NSA is just being among other people who stutter, building connections, and having fun while doing it! NSA Chapters give people who stutter, their families and SLPs, a chance to connect and have fun-filled experiences together! Who attends an NSA Chapter? People of all ages who stutter, along with their family and friends, speech-language pathologists (SLPs), and anyone interested in stuttering, are welcome at our chapters! Do you need to RSVP before joining an NSA chapter meeting? You do not need to RSVP, but it is a good idea to let the Chapter Leader know you’re coming. That helps them welcome you and makes your first visit a little easier. Do you offer virtual chapter meetings? Several NSA chapters now meet virtually, making it easy to join from wherever you are. On our Chapter Locator page, you can filter by meeting type and look specifically for virtual or hybrid chapters. When you find one that fits your needs, simply reach out to the Chapter Leader(s) for details on how to join their next meeting. We’d love to welcome you into the community. Don’t see an answer to your question? Email us at info@westutter.org How do I start a local NSA chapter? If you’re interested in starting a chapter, we’d love to hear from you. The NSA can help you understand what’s involved and what support is available. Please reach out to us at info@westutter.org to get started. How do I start a local NSA chapter? Starting a chapter is a great way to build community close to home. Email us at info@westutter.org and we’ll connect you with the guidance and resources you need to get started. You do not have to do it alone. How can I start a new NSA chapter in my area? Starting a chapter begins with reaching out to the NSA so we can help you get set up. We’ll walk you through the next steps, share helpful materials, and support you as you build a welcoming community for people who stutter and their families. Testimonials Read more about the power of chapters and support groups from NSA members themselves! "When I attended my first conference in 2019. I was welcomed into this "stamily" with open arms and haven't left the bear hug since!" Lexi Hewitt Exton, PA Chapter "Other people who stutter are the best sources of support, love, and encouragement on your journey. Don't be afraid to reach out, no matter what stage you're at." Gina Waggott Author, Entrepreneur "This community has helped me rediscover myself as a confident and capable person who stutters." John Ontiveros Lorem, CA Chapter

Support the NSA with your donation and help fund advocacy, programs, and community connections that make a difference for people who stutter. Support the Stuttering Community When you give to the National Stuttering Association, you help ensure that no one who stutters has to navigate their journey alone. Your generosity fuels the connection, education, advocacy, and research that change lives. It strengthens communities and expands access to dependable support for people who stutter and their families. Every gift helps someone feel seen, supported, and empowered. Monthly Giving Become a Changemaker with recurring support Start Monthly Gift One-Time Gift Make an immediate impact with a single donation Donate Now Specific Funds Direct your gift to a particular program or cause View Funds Venmo Quick mobile giving via @WeStutter Open Venmo Amazon Wishlist Send supplies directly to our programs View Wishlist Legacy & More Matching gifts, planned giving, and more options Explore Options RECOMMENDED Secure donations • 501(c)(3) tax-deductible • Cancel anytime Direct Your Impact You can choose to support the area that matters most to you. General Fund Provides flexibility to respond to the community's most pressing needs Your gift strengthens: Local chapters and peer support spaces Youth, teen, and family programming Advocacy and public awareness efforts New national initiatives launching in 2026 Give to General Fund Conference Scholarships The NSA Annual Conference remains a life-changing experience for many In 2025: 600+ people attended in 2025 Nearly 150 were first-time participants Cost is never the reason someone misses community Scholarships ensure access for all Scholarships ensure that cost is never the reason someone misses the opportunity to find community. Give to Conference Scholarships Research Fund Support research that deepens understanding of stuttering and strengthens evidence-based support In 2025, research highlights included: Approval of new research projects Graduate student research awards Collaboration between researchers and NSA Translate research into real-world impact Your support helps translate research into real-world impact. Give to Research Fund Give Monthly or One-Time Whether it's a recurring gift or a one‑time contribution, your support makes a meaningful difference every day. Why Monthly Giving Matters Monthly donors are the steady heartbeat of the NSA. Their ongoing support makes it possible to: Keep 164 chapters thriving in communities across the country Host more than 1,500 local meetings each year—places where people finally feel understood Grow educational resources accessed over 51,000 times in 2025 Remove financial barriers so more people can experience the life‑changing power of Conference Strengthen programs that turn isolation into connection and build true belonging Your monthly gift ensures this hope, community, and support are here— every single day, for every person who needs it. Make a donation By contributing monthly at a level you’re comfortable with, you’re supporting the National Stuttering Association’s mission and helping us make a lasting impact in people’s lives today and in the future. Amount $15 Helps keep trusted stuttering resources free and accessible to individuals and families. Helps keep trusted stuttering resources free and accessible to individuals and families. $15 $25 Supports community connection so people who stutter know they are not alone. Supports community connection so people who stutter know they are not alone. $25 $50 Helps fund educational materials for parents, schools, and allies. Helps fund educational materials for parents, schools, and allies. $50 $75 Supports local chapter meetings where people who stutter can connect and be heard. Supports local chapter meetings where people who stutter can connect and be heard. $75 $100 Helps sustain virtual and in-person programs that build confidence and community. Helps sustain virtual and in-person programs that build confidence and community. $100 $200 Supports outreach and awareness efforts that challenge stigma around stuttering. Supports outreach and awareness efforts that challenge stigma around stuttering. $200 $500 Helps expand access to programs serving teens, adults, and families nationwide. Helps expand access to programs serving teens, adults, and families nationwide. $500 $1,000 Sustains multiple NSA programs that support, educate, and advocate for people who stutter. Sustains multiple NSA programs that support, educate, and advocate for people who stutter. $1,000 Other Other 0/100 Comment (optional) Donate $25.72 Monthly I'd like to add $0.72 to cover transaction fees. Your Generosity in Action In 2025, because of donor support: (All data from the 2025 NSA Impact Report) 164 Active Chapters Nationwide 200+ Community Events Hosted in 2025 21 New Chapters Launched in 2025 600+ Annual Conference Attendees 1,500+ Chapter Meetings Held in 2025 51,000+ Educational Resource Accesses Behind every number is a person who felt less alone. View 2025 NSA Impact Report Responsible Stewardship The NSA is committed to transparency and careful stewardship of every donation. In 2025: 90% Programs & Services Directed to programs 6% Administration General administration 4% Fundraising Fundraising efforts Your gift directly supports the people and programs that make connection possible. More Ways to Make an Impact Matching Gifts Many employers will match your donation, doubling or even tripling your impact. Check Eligibility Planned Giving Leave a lasting legacy that supports future generations of people who stutter. Learn More Donor-Advised Funds Recommend a grant to the NSA through your DAF. DAF Instructions IRA Rollover If you are 70½ or older, consider a Qualified Charitable Distribution. Learn How Corporate Partnerships Partner with the NSA to advance inclusion and education in workplaces and communities. Partner with Us Play Video Play Video Play Video Play Video Play Video Play Video Play Video Play Video Play Video Play Video Play Video Play Video Load More Because of You Over 2,000 connections like these happened in 2025 because someone chose to give. Your generosity ensures that this community continues to grow—and that no one who stutters walks alone. Make Your Gift Today Secure • Tax-Deductible • 501(c)(3) Nonprofit The National Stuttering Association is a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization. All donations are tax-deductible to the fullest extent allowed by law. Tax ID: 94-2420533 Questions About Your Gift? Contact our team for personalized assistance. Contact Us

< Back Previous Sarah D'Agostino Presenter Sarah D’Agostino is a Michigander, speaker, facilitator, yoga instructor, business owner, wife, and mother who brings both lived experience and heart to her work. She has been a member of the National Stuttering Association for over 26 years, a community that has deeply shaped her perspective on identity, resilience, and self-acceptance. With more than two decades of professional experience, Sarah blends storytelling and personal development to help people explore who they are beyond labels and expectations. She is passionate about creating spaces where people feel seen, supported, and empowered to grow. Next